Diary of a Seasteader ([info]seasteading) wrote,
@ 2008-04-02 21:07:00
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Sealevator
Wayne had an awesome idea today for a demo device we could build in the Bay, we call it the sea-elevator (sealevator?).

Here's the motivation. Imagine you have a bunch of really big seasteads floating near each other, and they don't want to actually be directly connected (maybe they are very independent and want to be able to leave at a moment's notice, maybe it's a big storm and that's tough on connections, maybe a consultant tells us you just can't connect these things). But of course, you want a way to get between them without going all the way down to the ocean's surface, or having to deal with waves. And you want a way to get from boats up to the platforms, and back. There will probably be an elevator in the spar on each big seastead, but this is more fun...

Imagine a "seastead" with a really really long thin pillar (say 200' long), and a little tiny platform on top (10' diameter). It has a propeller below the water's surface (maybe on it's buoyancy, maybe on a floating collar so it's always just below the surface). And you can pump water into the floatation chamber to reduce/increase buoyancy of the sealevator to make it go up or down (this has always been our plan for seasteads).

So you could get onto it from a big seastead, and it would motor you over to another big seastead. Or you could lower it all the way to the water, get from a boat onto the sealevator platform, and then inflate the buoyancy and zoom! Shoot up to the level of the big seasteads.

In other words, it's a horizontal and vertical elevator!

The best part is, we can build one of these in the bay relatively cheaply, because it doesn't have many parts or materials. So you take a boat out to this thing, and you see a little platform floating on the water, and you get on, and zoom! You go up 100' in the air. You get a great 360 view of the bay, maybe you do something crazy like rappelling down (for fun), or jumping off with a hang-glider, or you bring it down to just 30' and dive off into the Bay, I dunno. Wouldn't that be a rad demo? Plus a good test of some of the basic technology.




(11 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]jes5199
2008-04-03 04:37 am UTC (link)
neat!

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[info]outlawpoet
2008-04-03 04:44 am UTC (link)
something that big would move pretty slow if a significant portion of it was below water, unless it was seriously heavily engined.

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[info]patrissimo
2008-04-03 05:53 am UTC (link)
Not sure what you mean by "that big", the spar is just a steel pipe, and the underwater buoyancy/ballast doesn't need to be very big. And it can be shaped like a submarine to minimize drag when moving horizontally.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

It would be interesting...
[info]hodja
2008-04-03 09:08 am UTC (link)
...to see a crude design complete with budgeting and schedule. It does sound like a neat idea; you could even charge for admission in order to raise funds.

I am not sure that it is a good idea to make it self-propelled horizontally; towing the thing might be more practical.

Rappelling down from the platform sounds like fun, too (and a good idea for fund-rising events). If it ever gets to that stage (and I hope it does), I would volunteer for helping people who have never done rappelling before with it (I am a trained climber) and would also contribute equipment (ropes, descenders, harnesses etc.) on a permanent basis (not just for the event).

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Eelco
(Anonymous)
2008-04-03 10:19 am UTC (link)
I was thinking about how to get in and out the other day, and i didnt see any elegant way of integrating an elevator in the spar without running into other trouble, but this is a really neat and elegant idea!

I do agree that there will be a lot of drag relative to the size of the vehicle. My guess would be that it wont go faster than one or two mph, but thats fine for its intended purpose id say. It doesnt need a propellor or rudder by the way: since it should have a fairly beefy pump in it anyway, a few nozzles and valves would be a simpler solution probably.

I share your concern about rigidly conecting seasteads: differential currents and waves would create forces that would put demands on any load bearing constructions in the hull far exceeding that of just resisting gravity. I dont think thats very feasible without also connecting the spars somewhere below the waterline. But this idea eliminates that concern completely.

And as a small scale testbed and promotional material it is also awesome indeed.

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Re: It would be interesting...
[info]patrissimo
2008-04-04 01:37 am UTC (link)
Our current plans are to have an elevator in the spar - what problems were you worried about? The bigger the spar, the easier it is.

The sealevator wouldn't move very fast, but drag is proportional to v^2 so I don't think it will be much of a problem. Interesting suggestion of using the pump for horizontal movement as well as buoyancy changes.

For rigidly connecting them, I figured on a spacer bar connecting the buoyancy chambers, as well as connecting the platform edges together. I think that's desirable to make sure they don't crash into each other, as well as to make it easy to get between them. But we'll see what the real marine engineers say about it.

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Re: It would be interesting...
(Anonymous)
2008-04-04 10:53 am UTC (link)
Our current plans are to have an elevator in the spar - what problems were you worried about? The bigger the spar, the easier it is.

Keeping the spar light, at least the top end, is equally important as keeping the hull light. And ofcource it should be sufficiently strong. Adding doorways kindof conflicts with that, a spar of equal strength but with doorways in several locations might end up being twice as heavy: you can no longer use a tube, which would be the optimal shape.

The sealevator wouldn't move very fast, but drag is proportional to v^2 so I don't think it will be much of a problem. Interesting suggestion of using the pump for horizontal movement as well as buoyancy changes.

Yes, exactly, as long as you are not aiming for high speeds, high drag shouldnt be a problem.

For rigidly connecting them, I figured on a spacer bar connecting the buoyancy chambers, as well as connecting the platform edges together. I think that's desirable to make sure they don't crash into each other, as well as to make it easy to get between them. But we'll see what the real marine engineers say about it.

Yeah, you need some connection between for instance the buoyancy chambers, but how to implement that in a practical manner?

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Re: It would be interesting...
(Anonymous)
2008-04-04 11:25 am UTC (link)
Keeping the spar light, at least the top end, is equally important as keeping the hull light. And ofcource it should be sufficiently strong. Adding doorways kindof conflicts with that, a spar of equal strength but with doorways in several locations might end up being twice as heavy: you can no longer use a tube, which would be the optimal shape.

Not that i mean to say thats a problem that cant be overcome, but if you have a sealevator anyway, we might consider not bothering with it at all.

Yeah, you need some connection between for instance the buoyancy chambers, but how to implement that in a practical manner?

But since you wont be rearranging them everyday, it doesnt necesarily need to be practical anyway.

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[info]glenra
2008-04-03 02:25 pm UTC (link)
That idea has potential as a moneymaker! Add a bungie-jump platform at the top. Maybe rent it as a view destination to a local tourist-ferry company.

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[info]patrissimo
2008-04-04 01:37 am UTC (link)
Now I'm starting to worry about liability...

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[info]gustavolacerda
2009-04-12 09:10 pm UTC (link)
Neat idea. I'd like to see simulations of this stuff.

I have a hard time believing that you could have a long-range sealevator AND stability at the same time. The higher up you are, the more the shakes are amplified.

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